Shades Marathon Training



    Big G - a stag do might be a tough ask re the not drinking, unless they have a particular activity planned to divert the emphasis on drinking.

    I don't think there are any hilly marathons at the right time of year for DD planning, but Humdinger and Tavy are great prep.   And you have enough marathons done now that you've met a variety of challenges during the races which you've dealt with, weather etc so you're well prepared.   

    Any sign of DOMS from the downhills yesterday?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah I booked the stag do in around Oct/Nov last year, before I'd decided to not drink.  Having said that, I still want to do everything I'd normally do as I don't want not drinking to feel that I'm limiting what I'd do - in fact I want not drinking to add to my life, so I'll take my running stuff and do a run whilst they're all in bed nursing a hangover.  Then, if they're still in bed when I get back from a run, I'll go to a nice coffee shop for coffee/cake and a bit of people watching.  Running and the coffee shop are things I wouldn't normally do as I'd probably be nursing a hangover too, so I see that as adding to my life really.  Not sure how I'm going to handle the money side of things though.  We usually all stick £20 in a kitty, and use that for drinks and top it up every few hours.  If I'm on soft drinks I won't want to do that all the time, but I'll just see how that goes.

    I was expecting a bit of DOMS as I did push it quite hard on the downhills, but my legs feel fine this morning.  I have tweaked my neck a bit though (not whilst running - I felt it twitch a bit as I undertook the arduous of task of getting off the sofa!) so I'm not yet sure if I'll run today.
    Big G - putting cash in to the kitty on the stag do would be totally unfair if you're not drinking, maybe you'll have to have that discussion before the beer starts flowing, tricky one.

    Hope your neck is OK, getting off the sofa can be challenging. ;)
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Depends what soft drink you have as some are nearly as expensive as alcohol these days.
    Jugula-That sounds like a very good effort with the wind for quite a stretch.
    Shades-I am definitely going to try to stick to the exercises this time,I've stop/started when I've done them in the past but more determined now,and I will have more time with work now also.
  • I've lost count of the times I've tweaked my neck doing something innocuous, Big G. It's a pain in the...neck.
    Perhaps you could order some virgin versions of cocktails, so it looks as though you're drinking even if you're not. That's if you like that sort of thing (and if you go somewhere that serves them, of course - if it's a regular pub then I guess the best you'll do is alcohol-free beer).

    I normally take a rest day on a Monday but as the sun was shining and I felt quite energetic, I decided to take the new shoes out for a spin. Turns out they're quite comfortable (a little harder to get on and off - with the Frees being like a sock I don't even need to undo the laces). They have a definite spring to them and it felt as though I was running with better form, though I'm not sure that's actually the case. One thing that suprised me, though, was I was feeling my right calf more in them. This could be down to it being more stressed after the run yesterday, where I could also feel it a bit. I should say that it's not the same part of my calf. That angry hotspot just below my knee seems to have gone, thank goodness - this was more in the soleus. I will be keeping an eye on it.

    I was definitely quicker today. I always perk up when it's frosty anyway, but I was around 30 seconds per mile quicker than I normally would be for a 4 miler that follows a long run. (Splits were 10:31/10:14/10:05/10:15). I don't know how much difference the shoes made but I could have run a lot further - however, given the calf issue and the fact I have a race on Sunday, I'm not about to be an idiot.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian/Cal, on the weekend just gone I had a couple of lime and sodas (I think they were 80p each) and at the gig I had tap water, so it ended up being a very cheap night for me.  The lime and sodas do kind of look like a vodka and tonic I suppose?  If a place has a decent ginger beer/ale, I do have that sometimes.  Also, if on soft drinks I don't order as many drinks as those that are drinking (I think I probably had half as many drinks on Saturday compared to my mates who were drinking) so on the stag do maybe I'll just put £20 in a day or something like that.  It's not until July, so plenty of time to sort it out.

    Cal, good news you had a good run today.  As you say, just make sure you get to the start line on the weekend!

    I have been umming and ahhing about doing a 3 or 4-mile recovery run, but I've definitely decided I'm going to take a rest day.  I feel I could run but I've ran 12 days in a row, so no bad thing to take a day off really.  If my neck is okay tomorrow, I'll hopefully do a run then.

    I know we've been discussing that Strava/Garmin elevations aren't accurate, but I was surprised to see the GAP figure for yesterday's run on Strava to be 7:20min/mile which isn't much slower than my PB-pace.  When I saw those last few miles to be down below 7s at the end of the race I was really pleased, so maybe I am in decent shape after all - my current PB of 1:33 is about 7:10 pace.  I would do Bideford Half (my half PB course) in March, but I'm doing a marathon that day so can't test it.  I am feeling pretty pleased with yesterday's effort though.  I've said it before, but I really do like the Half distance but I just can't fit everything in alongside the marathons!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-glad you had a good run,hopefully that continues.
    Big G-My wife drinks lime and soda when we eat out so I know it's a cheap drink  :) With the miles you're doing I'd say you're in very good shape,that PB will fall when you next race a normal half with comfort.
    7 miles this morning for me,felt a dull ache in the achilles but nowhere near 5/10 which is my stop sign,probably not even 2/10.
    My glutes are aching today though after yesterday's exercises,shows they are a weak spot of mine,interestingly(for me) the inner high thigh muscle always hurts just before my cramps start and they are sore today so hoping my exercises strengthen that and may reduce my cramping.
  • OnTheBeachOnTheBeach ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Hi All

    Hope everyone is well. Just thought I would pop in to say hello.
    I've been training, training, training. Absolutely loving Shade's training schedule, its working wonders for me at the moment.
    Ran another Half marathon a week ago and equaled my PB despite the course being mostly off road and having a few single file pinch points. I also ran the first 20 miler of the schedule yesterday and I cannot believe how fresh I felt after the run and even today. No sign of the calf cramps that I used to get and no early indications of approaching 'The Wall'. I felt so good I had to restrain myself from going back out and running the final 6 miles separately last night. Stick to plan!

    I have also been spending more time understanding the correct carb/calorie uptake for my weight. For this I have been using the calculations in the P&D Advanced marathon training book, however the calculations say I should be taking in around 500g of Carbs a day and up to 750g on the days following hard sessions??
    Interested to hear if anyone pays particular attention to this and to see how close people get. I tried last week and generally only managed around 300g of carbs. And that was going some I must admit. 
    Anyway based on the 300g of carbs I took in the two days before my 20 mile run seem to of really paid off.

    I also switched to SIS gels from the High5's, again not sure how much of this affected my run on Sunday. But something is definitely paying off.

    Oh and I have signed up to a second Marathon this year. South Downs Marathon in June. Really fancy switching to some trail running after Brighton. Exciting times ahead. 

  • Ooh that looks interesting, OTB. The one thing that puts me off these kind of races is that they're generally not easy to get to unless you have a car. But I'm almost tempted given that, although I've been in London since I was a baby, I was actually born in Sussex, and it's the day before my birthday. Only 4 weeks after Liverpool, though, so it'd likely be a bit much for me this year.
  • Cal Jones said:
    Ooh that looks interesting, OTB. The one thing that puts me off these kind of races is that they're generally not easy to get to unless you have a car. But I'm almost tempted given that, although I've been in London since I was a baby, I was actually born in Sussex, and it's the day before my birthday. Only 4 weeks after Liverpool, though, so it'd likely be a bit much for me this year.
    It does look good. A friend of mine has run it twice before and she loved it. I know it'll be tough, but I can't help thinking of pushing myself for an ultra one day. So I thought South Downs would give me a good taster of adopting a run/walk strategy across some trails. Plus it gives me a reason to keep my fitness up after Brighton.

    I have also signed up for the Maverick Original in Dorset, which is a 14-ish mile trail race and its around 4 weeks before South downs and 4 weeks after Brighton. So well positioned timing wise.

  • Big G - Congrats on the HM, as that does look like a tough course.
    Cal - Nice parkrun!
    Ian - Good to see you back running.

    18 miles for me Saturday at 8:07 average. Didn't really check watch, just ran easy. Actually ran through the park where they do my local parkrun, they had cancelled parkrun due to ice! Had a volunteer tell me not to run down one part, even though I needed to exit the park at that point, needless to say I just ran on past! Then a 5 mile recovery run on Sunday. That rounded off a 53 mile week, now the taper begins. Might (weather dependant) race a parkrun on the weekend.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    That's a good week of training there Steve!

    OTB, great to hear your training is going well.

    Shades, I used mapometer on Humdinger Half and it came out as 1472ft, so the highest estimate.  PlotARoute shows 1289ft, which is similar to Strava.
    - Mapometer: 1472ft
    - Race website: 1380ft
    - PlotARoute: 1289ft
    - Strava: 1282ft
    - Garmin Connect: 1057ft

    The average of that lot is 1264ft, so maybe Strava is good enough as an estimate?  Don't know.

    As it happens, I know a runner who is doing Tavy 13 and he uses a Garmin Fenix 3 which has an altimeter, so I'll try and see what his says after that race :)  But even that presumes he's calibrated the device correctly....
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    Good running everyone over the weekend. Especially OTB and Big G for the great half performances.

    I still have a horrible cough but am otherwise feeling ok as of about Saturday afternoon. But the cough is really annoying and I didn't manage to get out for a run at the weekend. Feels like I need to cough something up but there's nothing there. I think it's the same one that my daughter had for about 3-4 weeks. I've only had it about a week so far so it might hang around a while yet :(
  • Hi Shadies,
    I keep trying to catch up on the thread but the longer I leave it, the more there is to read!

    Sorry to hear that Shades and Cal have been having back problems. But good to see that you have both been able to keep running. Hopefully you are both over the worst of it, but good to cancel Yogaltes, Shades.

    Good to see that Big G is still running really strong. I just can’t can’t imagine a HM at the end of a 70 mile week! And seen on Strava that Steve is running well too. Still with P&D?
    Ian - what’s the latest on the Achilles?

    I had a rubbish January - just seemed to struggle pace wise and with recovery after any kind of run. So binned my track sessions to see if that helped, but it didn’t. Got bloods taken as thought it might be anaemia (also had fatigue, out of breath when climbing stairs plus felt cold all the time!) but they came back all clear. Seems to be getting a bit better in last week or so - I got my 1st sub-20 parkrun of the year on Saturday (nowhere near where I was 2-3 months ago, but it’s a start!). And was the 1st lady in my club’s hilly 10k race on Sunday - good for my ego but not a good time (slowest time to win it in years!) and was behind some of my club mates who I’m usually much closer to. I have the ‘Big Half’ in a couple of weeks. Not really feeling up to it, but don’t want to waste the place. 
  • Sorry to hear you're run down, SK. I'm in for Big Half too, if my calf stays in one piece. I've had a rough go of it too so I'm nowhere near my best but I'm looking forward to it nonetheless. I expect it'll end up as a ballot race so it's good to be in for the first one.
  • It’s got an amazing field so would be a good race to watch. Hopefullly some of the front end speed will
    make us go faster too!
    Cal - that's a great start with your new shoes.

    Big G - I can't imagine drinking as many soft drinks as alcoholic drinks on a night out either.  I like lime and soda too and it's usually a cheap drink too.

    Shame you can't squeeze a half marathon in somewhere to have a go at your PB, have you any race free weekends in March?

    I always regret that I couldn't do a half marathon when I had my great year of PB's, the only one I could squeeze in was the day after a marathon and I couldn't hold PB pace once I got to 9 miles so had to let that chance go.

    Thanks for checking all those elevations, maybe I'll use Plotaroute for now, Mapometer is just producing crazy stats now.   At least with Plotaroute the distance measured agrees with my Garmin, Mapometer always was way over.

    Ian - 2/10 is very good.   Shows how your exercises are hitting the right spots.  Inner thigh muscles, look for exercises for adductors.   I know you probably don't have time but you would benefit from doing a regular pilates class.

    OTB - thanks for the update.  I'm so pleased you're enjoying and getting the benefits of the training plan.   Made me laugh that you had to restrain yourself from going out to do the last 6 miles.

    If you can find a road half marathon to do you'll smash your PB.    

    I haven't done South Downs Marathon but it's popular and well organised, it's one of Mike Gratton's events.

    Re the carbs, it's actually quite hard to take on 500g as that is a quite a lot.   All you can do is aim for a healthy diet and have carbs at every meal, you don't want to resort to using sugars to up the carbs.

    Steve - that's a great long run and another good week for you.

    Nick - bad news on the cough, you do need to wait it out, Steve had something similar a  while ago.

    SK - so sorry to hear you've not been 100%.   Maybe you were just carrying one of those pesky viruses and that dragged you down.   But great news that you seem to be coming out of it now and a great parkrun time and win at your club's 10k race
  • SK - If it's fatigue, it could be a vitamin d deficiency, the GF has this and it knocked her for 6. She got a large dose to take from doctors, which seems to have done the trick. I guess your blood tests will show this up though. Nice 1st lady win though, and a sub 20 parkrun is always good! Following a P&L HM plan at the moment, so very similar to P&D.

    Big G - I ran the same 18 mile route Saturday as I did around the same time last year. Only difference was I've now got a Garmin 935 v 230 last year. I've got a 200ft difference in elevation, so must be something to do with the watch measurement? I'm assuming the 935 is more accurate.

    13 mile run this morning at 8:30s, felt good. Footpaths frosty though and wind was icy cold.
    Woke up and I could hear the wind and the rain.   As I went out the gate to the street for my run a huge gust of wind blew the lid of one of the bins out for collection and a load of plastic stuff went hurtling down the road, followed by a load of tins from the metal box :#  So in the dark I was running down the road collecting as much I could and back into the bins, my gloves were soaked before I'd even left home.   

    When I finally set off for my run I then realised that I was running in the wrong direction for my planned route, so an extra lap of the industrial estate allowed it to get light enough for me to amend my route and head off without relying on street lights.   Lots of rain and very strong winds in places but had a lovely run, mainly because it just wasn't so cold and I then run in a more relaxed manner, my back was only about a 1/10 today.   :)

  • Glad you had a good run, Shades, though the weather doesn't sound too nice.
    Nice run, Steve.
    I decided to take a rest day today. I'd run three days in a row, which is normally my maximum, and as I wasn't feeling too sparky I decided the calf and hip would benefit from a rest. I've done my exercises, though, and will go to yoga later.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, unfortunately I don't have a gap to do a Half in March, with the exception of Tavy 13 which obviously is a hilly one.

    SK, sorry to hear you're feeling run down.  It's good news there's nothing wrong with the bloods obviously, but it doesn't really help to solve the issue.

    Steve, interesting about the difference in Strava elevations.  935 has an altimeter doesn't it?  If so, and presuming you've calibrated it, I'd definitely take that over the Strava/235 data.  Just as a matter of interest, which was higher elevation - the Strava data from the 235 or the data from the 935?
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Nick-Hope that cough goes but they seem to linger for longer these days.
    SK-Sounds like a virus and maybe it was clearing when you had your bloods,still a very good parkrun time and great win at the 10k.
    Shades-The exercises seem to be going well,seems ok today despite running yesterday.The exercises I did made the abductors sore so guessing they must worked on that spot.
    Big G-is there such a thing as a hill walkers elevation as guess it's important to them so may be more accurate.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Went for a 4 mile run today with the wife,first time I've ran 2 days together for a month.Actually went really well.It was meant as a slow run for me but she's improving well so ended up closer to my long run pace.No effects on the achilles for now so hopefully I can start building again,just need to listen if it starts hurting at any point.
  • Some great running over the past few days shades. 
    Ian- good you are out running again must have helped your wife running with you.
    Finally got out for a 5 mile tempo run today really enjoyed it.
  • Big G - 935 data was higher and yes does have an altimeter. I've never calibrated it though, assumed it did it automatically....I'll have to look into that!!
  • Howdy all

    Entered another 2 marathons this morning, 2 of the three lakes in october with Foxy. Furzton and Caldecotte.

    Not ran since Plym trail thru a combination of illness (i was def suffering post plym as i only managed half day tuesday after at work and then was off work with flu til following week to the extent i was in bed not on the sofa) preparing for job interview which was last wednesday but will be next week before we find out who got it due to half term and people being missing, and then dodgy weather as i dont fancy running in gales/ice/rain/snow just yet ;)

    Prob enter windermere too at some point and then an assortment of local stuff of varying distances, there is a 10 mile one week sunday for instance. Got football tomorrow evening so if its like last time i'll be crippled rest of the week ;)
  • Steve - someone else mentioned Vit D and said their GP had recommended that most people should take supplements for it, esp. in Winter. So I’ve been taking it for the last week! I’ll try anything.

    Glad the Achilles was OK on your run, Ian. I envy anyone who has already got their run done today. About to go with my club and it’s windy, rainy and dark out there. :(
    edited February 2018
    Big G - Never mind, maybe you can find a suitable half later in the year.

    Ian - hope the achilles is OK today after your consecutive run.   Your wife is doing well, you'd better watch out ;) 

    Steve - I didn't know you had to calibrate the 935 either, surely it knows where you are at the start/base point.

    steven - do you still have snow up there?

    Keith - glad the post marathon flu hasn't put you off marathons.   I'm not doing Windermere, quite a pricey trip for me when I can do Worcester on the same day and no overnight stay or mammoth drive required.

    Be careful at the football.    

    I take it the job interview is for promotion where you are now?  

    SK - yes, lots of docs now checking Vitamin D levels and advising supplements.  If you read up on it I can't understand why the NHS has been so slow on this issue.   Apparently they've been adding Vitamin D to margarine/spreads for 50 odd years so the importance has been known, although they have found further benefits recently.  I'm very fair skinned and avoid any sun wherever possible and I've been taking Vitamin D supplements for over 30 years, even though I think I now eat a diet with a lot of Vitamin D.

    How are you getting on with your new shoes, Guide ISO's?

    Light rain this morning, a bit chilly when I went out but once I was out of the wind it was good running weather.   My back is a bit niggly this morning which is annoying, I had a really good sleep and didn't do anything to annoy it yesterday, so  a disappointing 2-3/10 today.   I was hoping to do Pilates tomorrow, having cancelled my usual Mon and Tues classes this week but I think I'd better cancel tomorrow's too.   But my back is a lot better than it was, so maybe just a couple of more days.
  • SK - fingers crossed you manage to sort it out. If it is Vit D, it can take a while to be back to normal fitness, as my GF found.

    Out for 10 miles this morning with strides, felt absolutely baltic!!
  • I've been on Vitamin D for quite some time. It's one of the supplements I consider essential.

    Shades, glad your back is getting a bit better. That little niggle I had with mine got dramatically worse in yoga yesterday to the extent that I wasn't sure I'd even be able to run today. I was literally groaning when trying to get into some of the poses. But, as it turns out, it's a non-issue when it comes to running. I may stay away from yoga for a few days though - I do not want a repeat of last year's Hampton Court where I spent the preceeding day strapped to my TENS (now broken, sadly) and downing painkillers.

    Anyway, I got out for 8 miles today, rather earlier than usual as am going to the IMAX this morning (Black Panther - I like my superhero movies). My favourite kind of running weather - crisp, frosty and sunny. Back felt OK, calf was a little sketchy at first but warmed up nicely, but grumpy old hamstring was very pissy. I'm not too worried as I've run a marathon with it like that and nothing bad happened, but it's annoying nonetheless. Still, that aside, it was an enjoyable enough run. 
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