P + D training for VLM 2013



  • Busy morning for me had to squeeze everything in as on an afternoon shift and wont get home till 9 tonight .

    Schedule today was 10 miles GA so made it a bit more interesting, I did 1 mile warm up then 7 miles MP ave 8.09s then 3 miles @9s...quick shower then pilates class, which is harder than anything else I do, my balance is crap but guess it can only get better.

  • literatin wrote (see)

    Sorry to hear you're not feeling well, Pottermiss & 15West. 15West, sounds like you need to just go back to bed and stay there and not try to eat anything till you're feeling better. Probably just as well you couldn't have a sports massage either! If someone tried that elbow-in-bottom manipulation on me when I had a stomach bug I'd probably just vomit on him.

    I did tomorrow's VO2 intervals in my 10-mile run this morning, as I wanted to leave extra recovery time before racing at the weekend. First time I've used the 'advanced workout' function on the Garmin for this, so I did all the intervals with the Garmin yelling at me to slow down. Probably good for me, as I tend to go too fast rather than too slow, but I'm not 100% convinced I got the pace zone right when programming it. Partly because I've never raced a 5k so had to guess what my pace would be if I did, but also how much of a range do others give themselves when setting the desired pace zone for intervals?


    What sort of recovery periods did you have in between the VO2 intervals? Was it a slow jog/walk or just your General Aerobic Pace?


  • Recovery periods were 90 secs jogging at about 10 - 10:30 mm pace -- I hadn't set a pace for those, just the time. And for the 6x 600m intervals I'd set it to 6:10 to 6:34 mm pace, which resulted in lots of beeping, but I did manage to stay in more or less the right zone on average. It's the first time I've done intervals with anything other than just a basic countdown timer, so in the past I've just gone by feel.

  • NN - are you aiming for 3:30 marathon? Do you think I'm being too soft with a 3:45?

    Pottermiss - I was in Delamere on Saturday. I am helping with the admin side of Parkrun and am going to a course on Friday night to be taught what I need to do, then on Saturday morning will be supervising the pilot run. Really excited, I'll be there most weeks. I can fiddle yer a PB...image Re HM, I'm considering doing another as I think I could dip under 1:40 and am too pondering one end of March. I think it's a personal thing and depends how hard you race and how well you recover. I'll make decision after I've done this weeks training as I ran Wrexham Sun and need to see how hard it's hit me before I decide. Is Ironbridge flat?

    Literatin - go do a 5k! You'll smash it. Probably come top 1-3 female too.

    Bloody cream crackered, race still in my system a bit so very slow 7 miles tonight. Do I need to do the strides?

    15W - hope you feel better soon mate.
  • Lit - I use that function for all the intervals I do.  It invariably bleeps at me in the first few seconds as you are getting up to pace and then usually OK.  I normally set it about pace +/- 10 secs to allow for a bit of variation.  Did you feel like you could have gone at a faster pace throughout? If so, maybe you get set the barre too low so to speak.  I always leave the recovery without pace so that if you need to walk you can.

  • Pottermiss, I also considered doing a half 4 weeks before VLM and was advised not to by people on this very thread... but I think that was partly because I've never run a marathon before.

    NN, voluntary extra MP miles before pilates is hardcore...

    HeOw, there are some pretty speedy women round my way -- same ones at most local races so I don't fancy my chances of being in the top three women at anything just yet! I came 10th in the county XC champs, but so far behind the 9th woman I couldn't even see her.

    Fiona - I did feel I could have gone faster throughout, though probably not by very much and it was quite right to beep at me! My problem is I'm crap at gauging pace and always go zooming off and then have to pull myself back. But I might set it for 6 - 6:20mm next time.

    I think I'm also a bit unsure re. exactly how difficult the VO2 session should be. P&D say to do it at 5k race pace rather than 3k pace, so obviously it's not meant to be the actual most difficult session ever, but I spent the run fluctuating between thinking 'well, you do have to repeat this 6 times so it shouldn't be THAT hard' and thinking 'am I really working hard enough to benefit?'.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Lit, I wouldn't worry too much about it - P&D also mention that intervals are not the key session for the week, and also have a specific section saying you shouldn't run them too hard.  

    From a (vaguely) remembered piece of advice from years ago, to get the most out of an interval session you should run all at them at a consistent pace (i.e. not start too fast and be unable to maintain that pace for the last one) - this is more important than running them 5 secs quicker etc.

    I'd say your probably about right on pacing - my best 5k is just over 20 mins but I know its relatively slow against my 10k/HM pace (which do align with the 3;15 marathon).  Your interval pace equates to just under 20 mins, and that sounds spot on for a 3:15

  • I think I probably do the 800m too fast as I don't think I could keep the pace up for 5k, I will try and keep it realistically 5k pace tonight. 

    HeOw wrote (see)
    Pottermiss - I was in Delamere on Saturday. I am helping with the admin side of Parkrun and am going to a course on Friday night to be taught what I need to do, then on Saturday morning will be supervising the pilot run. Really excited, I'll be there most weeks. I can fiddle yer a PB...image Re HM, I'm considering doing another as I think I could dip under 1:40 and am too pondering one end of March. I think it's a personal thing and depends how hard you race and how well you recover. I'll make decision after I've done this weeks training as I ran Wrexham Sun and need to see how hard it's hit me before I decide. Is Ironbridge flat? 

    Put me down for sub 20, no-one will notice image

    The Ironbridge half is flat/down hill for the first half (I think) but then has a big hill followed by a steady climb for the last 5 miles, at the moment I am telling myself that I can do it a MP pace as a practice for the marathon as part of a long run with the advantage of water stations provided. image

    Lit - I have recently seen some plans with a HM at 4 weeks out, but they were not as heavy on the mileage as P&D, and I would think we would need to be careful about overdoing things that close to the race as there is a 20 miler the following weekend and the legs would need to be recovered enough to do that and the rest of the plan justice I guess. 

  • In regards to setting pacing in Garmin, I'm sure you have to put the slower time in first, I set it the other week to keep me in my marathon pace zone, I put it in as;

    6:35 - 6:45

    It didnt stop beepeing and vibrating until I eventually has to stop and change it

    I put it to 6:45 - 6:35, not long after it settled down and I didnt hear it all run.

    Just a thought.

  • Craig - thanks for that tip! Just setting up my VO2max workout for tomorrow and I reckon you've saved me an annoying vibration-and-beep-fest...

  • might depend which model you have, though -- mine was only beeping at me cos I was going too fast! But I'd set the workout up on the Garmin Connect website and then transferred it, so it might be different.

    & Pottermiss, I think the other reason I decided against the late HM was that I wanted to run it fast, not as a long run with MP. So go for it!

  • Thats how I did mine Garmin Connect, but obviosuly if you are going to fast it s going to beep, but if you put in the fastest time first, it is never ending beeping.

    Got a general aerobic 9 tonight, how are they supposed to be run, how do others on here do them?? My marathon pace is 6:40 so i'm thinking arounf 7:45-8:00??

  • advice from the physio was encouraging. He doesn't see anything that suggests shin splints or anything more serious than tight calf muscles, and tight tibialis anterior muscle, most likely a result of fatigue and not enough stretching. He suggested more stretching, unsurprisingly, with the caveat that if the pain progresses such that it does not subside after warming up, then i should consider taking a break and returning for a further check. He said it would most probably respond well to a stepping off the gas slightly for a week or so, and doing lots more stretching. "You can't really stretch too much" was his mantra. So, all's good.

    Thankfully this week is pretty low intensity for me, i've got: 6, 14, 6, rest, 6, 16 (with 12 at MP). The 14mi is at Med/Long run pace, and the 6milers are all at recovery pace, so hopefully will be in decent shape for the MP run at the weekend.

  • That's what I mean, Craig, I put the fastest time in first too but that didn't seem to cause any excessive beeping. I have the Garmin 410. Sounds about right for the general aerobic run -- the book is a bit vague about them but I think it's just a putting-in-the-miles pleasantly steady shorter run.

    AG - excellent news from the physio. I love stretching.

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    AG, great news - have you got a foam roller?  Great way of squeezing out the tightness (although you dont say that during it!)

  • Thats sounds good as my legs feel a little achy after half marathon on Sunday, so a nice steady run will be just nice with the dog in the sun.

  • Literatin, Craig - I'm setting up my workout in Garmin Connect then uploading to my Garmin 610. So I put slowest pace in the 1st box (5:57) and fastest pace in the second box (5:37). Sounds like what Craig did. Should be fine for tomorrow right? 

  • i don't currently have a foam roller, Stutyr, but i'll be getting one to try to roll out the bumps in the tib anterior, and maybe batter my ITB at the same time. I feel a bit better about jogging home tonight, now that i'm not going to be waiting for my shin to snap in half at any time.

  • It worked that way for me, and if you look at the schedules you can get from Runners World, all the data is entered that way, just saying I put it in the other Sunday, the other way, it was constant 'speed up' or 'slow down',.

  • Ok cool thanks Craig. Seems like the best bet to do it this way round. I'll let you know tomorrow how I get on.

  • aargh - this is moving too fast for me again image

    Just a quick skim over the past couple of pages.

    Missed HeOw's brilliant brilliant half at the weekend imageimage. Huge well done. You deffo smash 3:45. I reckon low 3:40s for sure. I ran 3:38 off a 1:38 half. As I said, if I can do it anyone can. You are younger and keener than me image

    Sorry to hear Pottermiss and 15w are unwell image. Get well soon, guys.

    3 mile recovery last night, 9 miles with strides this morning. Cold, wet, sleet, snow, I'm really getting sick of this.

  • Quick skim over the last page and thanks guys for the Garmin info, I haven't used it for intervals before, well not to alert me, so will set mine up for tomorrow morning's first VO2 max run of the schedule.

  • With regards to inputting the times on Garmin - I have the 405 and I've put them in both ways round at various times and it only bleeps at me when I'm too fast or too slow regardless.

  • I have the 310XT, it must a certain model then as I have to put it in slow then fast, otherwise its a nightmare.

  • IMHO today's session was one of the most intimidating in the program image. This final LT session was 11m with 7m at threshold pace. I really didn't know if I could do it because I missed the previous LT session, so the most I had done was 5m at LT pace. I couldn't blame the weather if anything went wrong today, so it was best to just go for it.

    It must have been the nerves, because I needed a loo break in the second mile – hence the slower time – before I started the threshold running. During the run I debated whether to include the hill at 4.5 miles, which I could avoid – but I didn't want HeOw shouting at me again to man-up image, so I took the harder route. It was my slowest LT mile, but not by too much, and I'm pleased with how it went overall. A tough, yet enjoyable session.

    Detail for the stats whores (that's me and Night Nurse image).....

    My HMP is 8:46 and 15K pace is 8:16 – I aim for the latter, since I'm at the slower end of the running field. LT Heart Rate range 158-174bpm.  Mile splits were:

    9:57/11:05/8:18/8:22/8:27/8:11/8:14/8:13/8:24/9:59/9:13 [avg. 8:57]

    Average Heart Rate readings:

    ???/144/152/153/158/158/159/157/160/151/150bpm (first mile reading was nonsense max 206bpm – image) True max 168bpm.

    Average pace for the LT miles was 8:19. I'll take that, thank you very much!  The heart rate readings suggest I could go faster, but it ceratinly didn't feel like I could.

    I'm still debating whether to extend the forthcoming 20m run to 21 or 22 miles. I'd like to give it a go, but am conscious that I will be racing the Silverstone Half-Marathon the following week. Do you guys think it would be too much, or is a week plenty of time to recover from the LSR?

  • AMAZING run, Tenjiso! Can't believe you called NN a whore, though.

    I don't think 21 miles is VERY different from 20 miles... might be a nice compromise?

  • Hi Ten,

    Your primary goal is VLM. Thus you won't be able to do the normal taper before your half. Besides I did a pb on the 10th Feb with zero taper and doing a 21 miler the week before.

    Best R
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Man, I have had a rough afternoon. All feverish etc...and all on my ownsome so no one to feel sorry for me except myself. Feeling a bit more human this evening.

  • Actually, Ten, come to think of it:

    a) I did an unscheduled 21-miler on Sunday and have a HM this Sunday, so we're all at it. Though I am taking it easy this week after today. SR, did you just do the whole schedule as normal  the week before your pb?

    b) P&D say to leave 4 days between a long run and a tune-up race, so a week should be fine.

  • 15West, but we've all been feeling sorry for you virtually...

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