Are you and "in" or an "out"?



  • I do wonder if we will all be divided into Remainers and Leavers for ever now...

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    We are all leavers now.

  • VDOT52VDOT52 ✭✭✭
    When the Bregret subsides all we will have left is sense of Brereavement at the imploding of little Breton.
  • MuttleyMuttley ✭✭✭

    Oh I dunno, Asterix always seemed to come out top in the end image

  • XX1XX1 ✭✭✭
    15West wrote (see)

    David Davis in charge of Brexit...he favours something like the Canadian deal rather than the Norweigan deal apparently. He reckons advantage is with UK in any negotiations due to how much EU countries export to us. So...bring it on EU muthafukas. 

    Hope he fails the horrible twat.


    Is the CETA something we need to be concerned about?  I'm no expert...  Just wondering what others think.

  • JT141JT141 ✭✭✭
    I suppose things like the long negotiated trade deal with Canada and the transatlantic trade deal with the US are going to make the EU preferred partners over us. I'd expect Europe to rigorously protect these trading interests with the rest of the world. It wont be easy for the UK to muscle in. Who knows what concessions on our current trade standards we'll have to make. We might be heading into a bold new era of foreign interests offloading dodgy old shit here that wouldn't be allowed in any other major economy. But minimal government intervention and full market control seem to be the order of the day. If this Brexit had happened under Labour or had emerged from a popular leftist ideology I think these issues would be less problematic. As it is I fear our standards of living are going to be sold out from under our feet.
  • JT141JT141 ✭✭✭
    Interesting article about trade options and issues in the event of Brexit. Bloody hell it's a complex road ahead.
  • David Cameron claimed, before the vote, that we were not a nation of quitters. Since then nearly everyone has quit, including him. The one may who refuses to quit is Jeremy Corbyn. Cameron's message to him? For god's sake go man!! 


  • These deals usually take years to negotiate and we will have to spend a fortune sending negotiatiors around the world flying business and staying at 5 star hotels....when most of what they do could probably be done at home on teh computer


  • Dont forget Brian that the best negotiators will be working for the big parties - so the EU for one. They can afford to hire the best. Economies of scale innit.

    We are kidding ourselves thinking we can negotiate better deals or that we can get better access to other countries. They'd be much more focused on getting a better deal with a bigger partner - ie the EU.
  • Ooh, I just got a personal email from Caroline Lucas about the idea of a Progressive Alliance image

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Oooh. Just you and her Scream?

  • I think she is hoping for more than that image

  • VDOT52VDOT52 ✭✭✭
    Is progressive alliance a lesbian term?
  • booktrunkbooktrunk ✭✭✭

    Looks like Turkey have decided they are out.

  • Does that mean they have or haven't voted for Christmas?

    (silly joke but the world is a bloody mess at the moment)

  • booktrunkbooktrunk ✭✭✭
    I think it means the soldiers want Xmas.... But I could be completely wrong image
  • If you ally all the people in the minority who opposed Brexit; does that not still add up to a minority?

    And as it was said above

    15West wrote (see)

    We are all leavers now.

    Furthermore, surely the vote was apolitical with respect to the constituents of parliament.

    What we seem to be actually faced with is probably not much danger of anything seriously bad happening to the fabric of society, a prime minister who opposed Brexit and yet is positive about the future.

    We have the result of a referendum but no article 50 invoked and as far as I can tell, no actual requirement to invoke it. I might be wrong because law is not really my subject but as far as I can tell, the democracy we all enjoy is really just a weathervane for the government to gauge public opinion and continue leading us however they want therefore we might or might not leave the EU but not until on balance it suits the EU, Britain and the rest of the world at once. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some other country leave the EU before Britain got round to it.

  • leading on from my ignorance into the serendipitous nature of the internet I've just purchased a book with the following blurb:

    "Modern parliamentary democracy first developed in Great Britain and Britons played a major role in spreading democracy around the world for example, through the Commonwealth. However, at the start of the 21st century, Britain itself was no longer a fully independent democratic country. As part of the European Union bloc, unelected and immovable foreign authorities determined a large part of its laws, policies, and taxes. Domestically meanwhile, such things as extra-parliamentary bureaucratic lawmaking, curbs on local political autonomy, moves from direct to indirect representation, and restrictions on the private funding and advertising of political parties had diminished democracy. This study provides a detailed review of the main political independence and constitutional reform requirements for restoring and extending democracy in present day Britain."

    As long as we are leaving the EU, I think 'British Democracy: Its Restoration & Extension' is worth a read....

  • VDOT52VDOT52 ✭✭✭
    If the books suggests that curbing private funding is a bad thing and interferes with democracy then I think the author is confused and almost certainly Means plutocracy.

    The referendum got 52% of the vote and had 54% of the funding, a lot of which was from private sources. Rich folk buying policy is not democratic- it is the English way though.
  • If more people understood "the English way" (and I believe you are right about that by the way) then perhaps we would not be so blinded by our democracy to the extent of constant negativity about the world. Perhaps I don't get to meet the noblest of people in my day to day life but it would be hard to find anyone that would deny themselves a place in the plutocracy if they had a chance. The problem is perhaps that folk don't get a chance ....

    I haven't started reading the book yet so I don't know what it says about funding.

  • .... by not getting a chance I mean, the constant negativity that people carry around, not realising they are wealthy, persistent feelings of being hard done to. All perpetuated by the media and exacerbated by the system that panders to it.

  • JT141JT141 ✭✭✭
    A very cursory look at the chapter headings and the authors other work, seems to be coming very much from the position of economic libertarianism and laissez faire capitalism. I would guess this political ideology lay at the heart of the Leave movement at the fringe of the Conservative party, although it wasn't clearly expressed in the debate.
  • Since we can't just leap unto a utopia, I don't think those things sound so bad to be going along with.

    Not sure if that is exactly what the book is saying but yes my cursory look suggests it's more power to the people too.
  • JT141JT141 ✭✭✭
    Personally I think such economic liberalism sounds bloody awful and can represent the antithesis of individual power in a society. Free capitalism very readily morphs into a system which is neither free nor capitalist as we get monopolisation and a leaching into political control. But I haven't read the book and I'm not really familiar with arguments for that position.

    I'm tired and have gone a bit radical. Smash the system!
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Blimey, all very highbrow in here all of a sudden. Wasn't the leave vote a vote against globalisation and neoliberalism...but what we're going to get from being out of the EU is more globalisation and neoliberalism but we're a bit poorer?

    Maybe we need a military coup?

  • VDOT52VDOT52 ✭✭✭
    We need a real revolution. French style. Sadly It will only kick off when the 'poor' can no longer afford to shop at The same place as Peter Andre and their 7 kids can not have an iPad each at Xmas. That is when the shit will hit the fan.

    I know wealth is only a theoretical thing once you go beyond visible possessions but when you have mansions costing 12million and people driving car hat cost a 1million yet houses in some areas cost 40k and there is no work then obviously people will feel resentment. What they resent the other poor folk is beyond me, regardless of where they come from. The poor are all the same as are all the rich.
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Liam Fox has already sorted out free trade deal with Australia once we're out of the EU. Maybe they were right all along??.....

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