Shades Marathon Training



  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Found a toughish 6 mile run for us today,up hill for the 1st 1.5 then back down and along the beach,not much flat apart from the seawall,running with the wife is good as it keeps my pace in check.
    Boston marathon entry complete,should find out in a day or so.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, sounds a nice route. Exciting about Boston too!

    Thanks Shades. I won’t do anything too radical with the running form then. I just wonder that if at some stage I want to see if I can get a bit quicker, every little may help!  But I think for me the main things are mileage, constancy and, dare I say it, my weight.

    There’s been some parkrun news that it’s going to start up in Netherlands in 2020. No news yet on the locations but I often wondered why they weren’t in that country, so it’s good to see them starting there.

    Speaking of parkrun, we’re hoping to go to Mount Edgcumbe tomorrow. It’s one where you have to get a ferry across to do it, and I think it’s quite a challenging/hilly route. No doubt there’ll be coffee/cake afterwards.

    I sat there with my 100MC spreadsheet today pencilling in a very rough plan to see if I can get to the 100 next year. Presuming no more serious injuries it does appear to at least be possible, but as I mentioned before I’m not going to decide for sure until the new year and/or I get into the 80s. 
    Ian - I see you've got your OH running hills now too.   ;)

    Hope you get a prompt response from Boston.

    Big G - I was watching the run section of the Triathlon WC from Lussuane this afternoon and the elite men have a huge variety of running styles, some with what could be considered as obvious faults but these guys are 30 min 10k runners so do well without perfect form.   Lots of them have an arm action that cross their bodies, I think the action keeping arms to the side of the body is for sprinters really.

    Where's Mount Edgecumbe?

    Good that you've sketched roughly your 100 MC plans, you can just get on with the running of the races now.

    I've had a really hungry day today but have only gone 40 calories over allowance today.   I think normally this would have been a 3,000 calorie day if I wasn't on this plan. 
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, Mount Edgcumbe is a big house and estate in Cornwall, but you get to it via the Torpoint Ferry. In theory you can get to it also by going over the Tamar Bridge, but it’s quicker/cheaper going via the ferry. 

    I know Steve Way has got a bit of a dodgy running style with his arm. I remember him saying on an interview that he did try and get it looked at or changed, but in the end decided to stick with what he naturally does. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-She's really strong up hills,got a lot of leg strength from her exercises
    Big G-Think keitany has her arms go right in front so no right way,I just noticed from a video I was very hunched up and always suffered from sore shoulders on a long run.
    Boston should be straight forward,didn't auto-verify as my manchester finishing position is different with chip and gun but should be verified quickly.
    edited September 2019
    Big G - lovely morning for crossing the Tamar by ferry :) 

    Yes, I remember now that Steve Way does have that distinctive way of running with his arm(s).   I guess our bodies are used to balancing us in their own ways.   
    A lot of Japanese runners run with their arms down by their sides with minimal movement, I guess for them it's energy efficient, although it looks odd and uncomfortable to me.

    Ian - yes, Keitany runs with her arms high and definitely uses them to drive herself forward

    You'll maybe have to persuade your OH to do a hilly race or two then ;) 

    9 miles this morning, chilly 8 degrees so back to light winter kit, I'm like Barbie this week changing my clothes.    

    About a mile from home I have to run over a narrow humpback bridge, no pavement and traffic controlled by traffic lights.  I always have to be careful here as some traffic seem to think pedestrians (me) should be waiting for the traffic lights and it is narrow.  I run over the top of the bridge and there's a bloody sheep in the road, very nervous.  There was a transit van behind the sheep which the sheep was terrified of even though the driver had thoughtfully turned his engine off.  I tried to get the sheep to go past the van as I knew there was a field of sheep a few yards behind the van but it was heading towards where traffic comes off the link road at speed.  I managed to stop it going past me but the bloody thing ended up jumping in the hedge where into an area with trees and scrub and hopefully it found it's way into the field below.   That's about the 3rd time in the last year I've met loose sheep when out running.    🐑

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Well, plans didn't work out quite as expected but I suppose plans are there to be changed ;)   Ended up sitting up late chatting with the friends that are staying and last night we all decided that the early start to Mount Edcumbe wasn't what we wanted to do.  So I just did my home parkrun, plus added a bit either side for a total of 7.5 miles. Really nice to be out and enjoyed the run a lot this morning, and from my point of view the change of plans meant I could do a few extra miles. 

    Shades, hopefully the sheep will be fine, and nice of the driver to stop. I think I know where you mean - was it quite close to the Barn Owl pub?  That place used to be my local really, as it’s a short walk from my old house, and a far better pub than the The Sloop!
    Big G - never mind you can do that parkrun another day, would be a fairly early start to get there.

    You've recovered very quickly from your marathon :) :smile: 

    Yes, the back road from Decoy to the 2 new little roundabouts, daft sheep was heading towards the roundabouts.   Haven't been to the Barn Owl for a long time but they used to do great food.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah, I'm quite pleased really as legs were a bit sore yesterday but today I eased into it and enjoyed it.  Even though there's a marathon in there this week, I don't expect I'll get to 50 miles this week - this is my issue when doing multiple marathons, as my training/mileage definitely suffers.  I complain about this often but maybe I just need to accept I can't do the mileage I'd prefer to, when ticking over the numbers is the main priority.  On Thursday I was talking briefly with Steve Edwards (he doesn't really know me) and another 100MCer, who finished a couple of minutes ahead of me but is coming back from injury.  Obviously Steve is nearly always under 3:30 and does a lot of events.  The second chap does a lot around 3:30, but interestingly my PB is marginally quicker than his.  The lady who was first lady at Plym Trail has a pace that she can run at for miles and miles, but she says herself that she's not that quick at the shorter stuff.  Her 5k PB is about 24mins, but on a flat road marathon she's about 3:30, so more or less the same min/miles for 5k and marathon!  Strange how it works.  Probably we all have to find what works for us, but for me I always like to think I could do more miles in the week between events, but I never seem to quite manage it due to tiredness.

    Regarding Barn Owl, when I went there regularly it was part of a chain (Hall and Woodhouse) - not sure if it still is.  Before that it was a free house, and really nice, and quite quirky.  Hall and Woodhouse took it over and built an extension etc, and I have to say it did lose some of its charm.  But still better than The Sloop, which is (or at least, was!) dreadful.
    Big G - it's not tiredness just from the running but from the travelling too and that all has an impact on recovery time and how much training can be done in between events.    The last time I spoke to SE about his training he had a set routine of what he did in between races, but that was when he was racing weekends only so that may all have changed now that he does midweek races too.    

    I have successfully incorporated a marathon or an ultra into a high mileage week but it can't be done every week, maybe two or three consecutive weeks then ease off on the 4th week training wise.

    Re the lady that won Plym Trail, she's probably not in the slightest interested in racing anything shorter than a marathon so just runs 5ks etc at her normal pace.

    My official half marathon PB is 5 minutes slower than when I've reached halfway in a marathon, not due to doing the first half at a suicidal pace but because when I was running my best there wasn't a half marathon available for me to improve my official PB.  I tried at one half marathon but failed, that was because it was the day after I'd run a marathon PB, and warm too, it was Stur Half.    I would often go years without running anything shorter than a marathon, maybe one 20 miler on the odd year.

    The few times I've been to the Sloop, I've vowed never to go back, don't think it's changed for the better.  I don't even think of it as a pub.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah, she's not interested in 5ks.  She's at parkrun regularly, and runs with her kids - she never "races" it.  She's not that interested in getting quicker at marathons either.  Ultras are her thing and she said she can pretty much run 100k at her marathon pace.  She said that obviously things happen and it's not guaranteed, but if things go well, she can do a 100k at that kind of pace.  I know she went past me at City to Sea at just gone 20-miles and she finished the 34-miler in about 6:20.  Her husband hasn't been running that long and when he started she was quicker than him at the shorter stuff, but not any more, which she said does niggle her slightly.  He's very competitive but not that interested in marathons - I think he's into shorter tris, mainly (he's a Torbay Trier).  Incidentally, DD is her favourite event :)  (Yes, we had quite a long chat whilst running together on day 1, before she took off up the final slope).
  • Ian - good luck with Boston!

    Big G - yeah, my arms could be better - or rather my shoulders could. I tend to throw my right shoulder forward when I'm tired and my posture has started to suffer. You can see that clearly at the end of the Weald trail half. (Also, what's with my pinky finger? :D )

    I've seen pics of Mount Edgcumbe - looks like a great parkrun, although rather hilly from what I've been told.

    Speaking of which, I did South Norwood today, in a country park that was once a sewage works. It's actually really lovely and you wouldn't know you were in London but for the Crystal Palace mast poking up over the trees.
    I met another parkrunner called Tunde on the tram (he was wearing his apricot so I went and talked to him) - he's a V60 and was hoping to go under 23 minutes, and managed it by 1 second. I also had a good run - 24:53. Not as fast as Beckenham but it's a slightly tougher course - mostly flat but with some humpy grass at one point and a little uphill near the end of each lap (it's a two lapper). I was 4th lady and 1st VW50 - glad I put a spurt on at the end as the 2nd VW50 was only 6 seconds behind. (She got a PB - I hope I helped in some way!) Nice to get another sub-25, though - this is the 7th, including the Brockwell 5K, so I've definitely made progress this year.
    So looking good for Richmond tomorrow. I want to get under 1:55 if possible - under 1:53:45 would be a PB but I'm really targetting Kingston for that. We'll see what happens!

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, I've been to Mount Edgcumbe a couple of times, but not for the parkrun.  I don't know the exact course although it's got a chance of being pretty hilly, but with good views over to Plymouth.  Best of luck for tomorrow!  I was briefly considering entering a half for tomorrow - there's a hilly one in Cornwall - but decided against it.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-Good luck for tomorrow,dont be too sure you wont get near that PB as you are in very good form.
    5 miles today with 400ft of hills,seen a strava crown yesterday so thought I'd give it a go as it looked soft and I smashed it by 20secs over 400mtrs.
    edited September 2019
    Cal - that is odd about your pinky. 😉

    Hope your race goes well today and anyone else racing.

    10 miles for me today, chilly morning, wore light winter kit and I was bloody freezing except for the last half mile.   Did my favourite 8 mile hilly route and tagged on an extra couple of miles.   First time I've done any hilly stuff since starting at the gym and although I haven't done a leg session in the gym since Thursday definitely felt some depletion in my leg muscles.   Thankfully I'm not even attempting any long runs at the moment.   Lovely morning though with a full moon and a bit of mist, saw two beautiful deer but thankfully no sheep today. 😊
  • Not my fastest half. Conditions weren't bad (a bit warmer than I'd like towards the end, but there was plenty of shade and a bit of a breeze off the Thames) and I managed to stick to my pace for 11 miles. But then I started to feel as though I couldn't get enough air in my lungs. I'm not asthmatic but there were a lot of dusty gravel paths and I think the combination of that and all the marathon miles in my legs took a toll and I slowed down. Some of that was mental - by the end I felt like I couldn't be arsed. Came in at 1:55:06.
    Still, I'm OK with it. It's still my third fastest half, and my fastest time over this course (this is the fifth year I've run it). Kingston Half in three weeks should give me a better chance of a PB since it ought to be a little cooler and the surfaces are better.
    A little annoyed that they wouldn't let me have the man's finisher T-shirt, which is blue, and I had to take the woman's, which is white, which I dislike as it goes grey after a few washes. Eh. :/

    Cal - that's a good result, CB and third fastest time.

    Maybe when you got to 11 miles, which is often the toughest part of a half, your brain told you that this wasn't your target PB race.

    Pity about the shirt, I suppose they were being strict with allocation although there would have been some DNS's so in theory some surplus shirts.

    I get really cross if the women's shirts are pink and usually refuse to take one.  :#
  • I've never had a pink shirt (other than a vest I bought from TK Maxx - it's hot pink though. Don't mind hot pink but cant stand pastel). The female shirt is a nicer shape than the male version - just don't want white. Eh, well I guess I can wear it until it looks crap and then it'll go in the charity bin.
    And you're right - once I knew I wasn't on for the PB, I didn't push it. Got a better chance at Kingston, so no point (especially not with another big mileage week next week).
  • Oh, for the record, I just went with the cups in the end. It wasn't so hot that I got terribly thirsty, which happened at Harry Hawkes 10 last year. There was a small bottle at 10 miles which I was grateful for.
    The two Garmin set-up worked quite well too but it was interesting to see the two watches gave me different distance readings and splits. I guess it averages out - finish times were only one second apart which was down to me pressing the stop buttons in that order.
  • Big G well done on the mid week marathon, nice way to break the week up.  I'm considering Gdansk for 2020/ 2021 but may make a trip out there. 

    Ian, I'm too guilty of clenching and tensing too much, feel alot better running when I relax.

    Shades, I wish they would make more pink mens shirts, I quite like them. Decathalon come under a bit of scrutiny recently  they sold mens running clothes, womens jogging clothes, their arguement was the clothes were design with jogging speeds rather than running speeds however they no longer sell running clothes (other than running bottoms as a style).

    Cal well done on another parkrun, hopefully we'll get similar weather for Westmill that we've had this weekend.  Well done today, shows you're in good form and running consistently well.
    edited September 2019
    Cal - I've had a few pink race shirts, one year even DD had pink, for all runners, they were vile.  The Lap of the Gap marathon I did earlier this year had baby pink for the women, they were a lovely cut but I refused it and they gave me a men's shirt, baggy fit but a georgous slate blue.

    Glad the cups weren't too bad.  LOL at the two Garmins. Usually we get to know how our own Garmin measures a distance, they're often quite different, that's why they can't be used for course measurement.

    Robert - how odd of Decathlon, they are pretty unusual compared to other retailers in quite a few ways.  I think they're French?  I've bought a couple of times from them and always had good service and value for money.

    Hope you're recovery is still going well and you feel that you're making progress.

    I'm still on MFP,  12 days now.  I'm finding the app quite addictive now but still having a hungry day every so often but I have to be good as having another body fat analysis done on Wednesday.  Then on Thursday I'll start carbo loading and on Saturday I'll be in Wales looking for a chip shop for pre race fish and chips  :D
  • today was the inaugural self nav 5 rivers challenge, pre fall I had entered the marathon distance, Elle entered the half and there was a 6.5 mile option too.  We both would start and see how far we'd go but deep down knew we'd be dropping down distances as training hadn't gone to plan for Elle and mine well, 2 slow parkruns in 12 weeks.

    Elle's prep wasn't ideal, a house party fuelled on prosecco, I was sensible with a couple of beers.  I'd normally run to the start only being 1.5 miles away but decided on driving down. Really friendly atmosphere at the event, registration was easy and made our way to the start.  I walked/ jogged the 1st loop with Elle covering 6.5miles in 1hr 50.  I then went out on the 2nd loop and did a bit of jogging and a few 12.30 min miles, it was getting warm and I was tiring so slowed a bit, covered the following 6.5ish miles in 1hr 27.  I since realised I cut about 200 off the course but not worried lol.

    I came in and Elle told me I wasn't starting the 3rd and final loop, I said I was, she said I wasn't and in all fairness I was whacked and probably was never going out.  Was good to get out and do a little bit of running and chat to a few people, was good to be able to run/ walk with Elle who struggled at the end of her loop.

    The course was fairly well marked and the instructions were pretty good too. Fantastic cakes on offer at the start/ finish of each loop, drink checkpoints every 3 miles, nice little stash in the goody bag (coke, biscuits, kitkat, banana) tech shirt, medal.  The 2 guys 1st event they have organised but felt like they'd been doing it for years.  I was impressed from the word go, seeing the marshals all had race branded hi vis, the start finish arch was branded too.  They are planning on making it an annual event and will be a welcome one locally.

    I do feel like a lorry has hit me and reversed over me a few times but I enjoyed being out at about on the trails.  Despite it being slow it was faster and longer than anything else recently.

    Its not the start to go on as I shouldnt be running with the DVT/clot but will give me the boost to try and get fit and lose some timber.
  • Good job, Shades - those fish and chips will taste even better after your dieting.
    Rob - sensible decision - glad you enjoyed it anyway. Sounds like a good event.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Cal, that's still a great time.  3rd best time and a course record isn't to be sniffed at.  Sounds like you're well up for the next one in 3 weeks.

    Robert, well done on the run/walk this morning.  Best not to overdo it as you know, but sounds like you had a nice morning out.

    Shades, yes, I know what you mean about MFP.  I think it's a good app from that point of view, as it does focus the attention a bit.  I've heard of people getting totally addicted to it in an unhealthy way, but I think if we're sensible it's fine.

    Rest day for me today, but I hope to get out tomorrow.  I do have a physio appointment tomorrow AM so I'll see what she says.  Consultant says I need different exercises now (flexibility as opposed to strength), so that will be interesting to see if they do actually give me different things to do.

    Had the pizza oven on the go today and our friends have enjoyed it.  I think they're probably going to get one when they get home... :)  
    Robert - well done to you and Elle.  It must feel so good to be out there again after so many weeks of being confined to the house.   I hope the NHS are just being overcautious telling you not to run.

    Big G  - you should be on commission for those pizza ovens. 😉

    Re MFP, I think it's probably one of those things that to be successful there needs to be some element of addiction/obsession.   Same with our running and training.   But I can see that such an app/website would attract those with unhealthy obsessions re weight/body image.   I accidentally closed my diary one day before I'd logged any food and got a message in red lecturing me about the dangers of not eating enough.   I didn't join MFP for weight loss but to try and get the macros right for carbs/fat/protein so that I can lose fat and gain muscle but I think I might continue to use it for a lot longer, mind you the losing fat and gaining muscle is going to take a long time anyway.

    Hope the physio goes well and you get some helpful flexibility work to do.

    6 miles for me today, lovely morning, perfect temperature, not cold like yesterday.
    Re obsession/addiction, a friend (non running) recently sent me this card...

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I like that card 😊 Regarding MFP, I’ve heard people say that they’ve connected their f
    Fitbits etc to MFP, and basically check MFP every few minutes to see what difference a few steps may have done to their calories.

    I did a 7-miler this morning.  First couple of miles felt quite tough but I got into it in the end. A large section of Paignton green was cordoned off with police present, and when I got home I found out that a body had been found there :(  

    Not really sure what the running plans are before Berlin as I’ll probably decide day to day, but obviously the idea is to get to Berlin start line itching to go!  I think with my 3:19 time (which I believe has been verified by them) I’ll be in the first pen of the second wave, so a 9:20am wave start time. Not sure if that means it’ll be packed or not, but there’s not much I can do about that, but I hope to be able to run freely.  Getting excited about it now.

    After the run, I went back to the physio and for the first time since I very first saw the GP months ago, he mentioned "frozen shoulder".  He said that I was presenting what looked like the end stages of that, and is why the movement is so bad.  He's given me half a dozen different stretches to do, which he says will definitely help the range of motion.  I said I was worried about pushing it too much for fear of taking a big backwards step, but he said it was fine to really feel the stretches at this point.  He thinks probably it was a few things going on initially - rotator cuff, calcification, and then that led to this frozen shoulder - but that is why the exercises given initially are different to the ones given now, which kind of makes sense.  Anyway, he's told me to stop the strengthening exercises and do these mobility/stretch exercise instead so I'll see how I get on with those.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, are you up to date on the Vuelta?
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-You should be really happy with that,you said youd be happy with 1:55 and near enough there with an easy finish.
    Big G-I'm looking at 2 relatively easy weeks so I'm ready to go next Sunday.
    Just had a short run yesterday,rest today as it's really hot now and the knee and achilles was a bit sore.
    As for boston I'm in  :) not had the verification email through yet as they work their way through them all but they are opening for less than 5 mins today so it means all above 5 will be in.
    Big G - those folk connecting their smart watches to MFP and believing the calories burned will be unlikely to lose much weight, we all know how the figures are wildly exaggerated.  But I was on the rowing machine today and it's demoralising how few calories are actually burned. 

    That's every runner's nightmare finding a body, we've all seen those crime dramas and the opening scene is often some poor unsuspecting runner, or dog walker.

    Sounds like that was a good and reassuring physio appointment.  Good to know that you can do the stretches without the worry that you could do more damage.

    When I did Berlin the waves at the start were organised with impressive German precision.  Yes lots of people but didn't feel that we were crammed together as you can have at big city marathons and very little delay at the start while we settled into our pace so running freely fairly quickly.  But further on, the course was congested ,how much of that was due to the roads narrowing and runners in the wave before slowing or a combination of both, I don't know.

    No, I'm 4 episodes behind in the Vuelta. Not even watched the first highlight programme of TOB yet.  I have less TV time now with all this going to the gym.

    Ian - that's great news about Boston.
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