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Run Wales - welcome ... pretty good summary of HADD
Brian, I'm basing my targets on my recent 10M time. I ran the half in September and have built mileage and improved since then. Also the half was my first race and my HR went through the roof so i bottled it as i was fairly confident of something close to 1:40 at the time.
Mace - I never watch the HR during a race...... I sometimes wear the gear but turn off the reading for HR.... I run faster that way
mace wrote (see)
Chick, that does seem a lot of miles considering it doesn't seem that long ago you were recovering from a mara in which you pb'd !? Hope easing off will do the trick.
Marathon was on October 7, so quite a while ago. I'm base building right now and will start with proper marathon training on Jan. 14. That 61 mile week was a bit of an accident as I missed my long run the week before due to icy rain and conditions too horrid even for Yaktrax... so I basically did 2 longish runs in 7 days Hiya RunWales VT: good luck with the colonoscopy. Boy, -12F is mighty cold
VT - blimey that's cold, i bet that shower was bliss The doc thing is to do with the blood ? Are you still getting it ? I've experienced similar in the past ( not often though, and very slight ) and i'd say if it's not a regular thing you don't have a problem. I've not researched it though ..... it's never bothered me enough to.
AGF - it was my first race so used it as a comfort dummy My HR went mental so i panicked a bit and took it easy but had a great race as from halfway nobody went past me and i ran a 3min neg split ( 55 + 52 )
A grew a pair for my next race and ran to target pace
Chick - Oct 7th ?? Blimey, time flies when you're 'hadding' fun
ps. hope your pace has lost it's shitness now
Another week done and dusted and a distance pb to boot, 48.4 miles @145(76%), have a good weekend guys and gals
Fine mileage Stewart, a few weeks of that and i'd expect to see a nice WOW moment to reward you for your dedication.
SC, cracking stuff and weekly mileage! Keep knocking on the door and it will open eventually.
Stock recovery run for me. Seems I am back to near normal after the Xmas blip. Less than 1000 beats per mile.
8.26 miles in 68:13 @ HRav 120
Run Wales wrote (see)
From reading.. I think that they key to good long distance running is anaerobic running ability is almost unnecessary for decent half/full marathon running When you train below the LT (preferably just below), then you build up and optimise your aerobic running system (e.g. increasing mitochondria function) - burning body fat, burning it with oxygen, which is very efficient (rather than the inefficient anaerobic chemical breakdown of glycogen in the muscles) If you train above the LT, this does NOT train your aerobic function (or at least, it doesn't train it very efficiently... I assume that it gets some benefit, although I'm not sure I've seen that written down in Hadd articles.) I had thought that if you go faster than the LT pace, then you give MAXIMUM training to your aerobic system - and ALSO train your anaerobic system. I think that the fundamental point of Hadd, is that this is a common and very substantial misconception. If you can read those carefully, and tell me if you think I've correctly grasped it, I'd be really grateful Especially the 4th bullet point. If anyone cares to expand on these, or add to them, that would be great. Cheers
Thanks for your comments Brian & Mace, I'm a bit surprised I grasped it quite so well. Just to be annoying, I'll ask some supplementary questions!
Thanks a lot for your time
as you know I am doing the Loch Ness marathon in Sept, I will only HADD train, no icing on this cake for me this time, see what transpires.
It will be my 3rd road marathon and to be honest I feel I am still on a learning curve.
So I am with Andy on this one.
Run Wales - Point number 4. Is a contradiction of point 3 surely!?!
Only had the blood that one day. Have been tip top in every way since then so likely a blip. If you look on the web, it's been shown that distance runners can get ischemia (loss of blood/oxygen) to the colon during long and/or very hard runs (blood diverted to muscles and cardiovascular system to support the run). Loss of oxygen to the colon can lead to cell death/sloughing...this causes bleeding. Many runners report this. Usually the scenario is after a long, hard run, you feel like you're going to explode (runners trots) and some blood can be seen when going you know what. That's likely what happened to me, but the extra test is to rule out out inflammatory bowel syndromes like Crohns/IBS or diverticulitis or worse polyps (precancerous or cancerous). The advice I've been given is to rule out all the bad stuff cause it's all managable if caught early.
Today it was 25 F and windy which = balmy conditions
17 miles of goodness = no tingling in my legs
2 days of running this week for 31 miles; hopefully I can hit upper 40s after sat/sun. The two long runs should be refundable for mitochondria in a few weeks time (I hope). I think you qualify as well Chick.
spen71 wrote (see)
Run Wales - Point number 4. Is a contradiction of point 3 surely!?!
Hi Spen71, I guess that you're responding to my first post of last night (am I right?)... in which case I could have been clearer.
I meant that, prior to reading Hadd's stuff, I had PREVIOUSLY thought that running faster than the LT pace would fully train the aerobic system (as your heart and lungs are working overtime), and on top of that, it would also train your system for dealing with lactates etc.... I was pretty sure that this was wrong, and was asking people to confirm it, and to confirm that Hadd believed this to be a very common and fundamentally important misconception... at the heart of his 'teaching'.
I did read a link from very very early on this thread, and I'm sure it gave some science behind it. I'd be interested to know if any important scientific people dispute this fundamental tennet of the Hadd training method.
I'm still trying to get my head round this, and I suspect that others have breezed into this thread in the past with similar questions. At least I can honestly say that I've done several hours research prior to enquiring, so it must be down to me being thick rather than lazy!
One thing I can't quite grasp is that hadd training seems to want you to do lots of miles at slower than MP. Indeed quite a bit below.
But if, as you say, a marathon is almost totally aerobic, then why not do your training at your marathon pace... or extremely close to it. I can't quite square this up.
RW - The elite runners will run 3 mins slower than marathon pace a lot of the time.
well said AGF
RW - MP is the top end of aerobic - Hadd wants you to squeeze from below, improving pace at lower heart rates, thus allowing room for improving pace at higher heart rates.
Running a mara will shred every muscle, including your heart. If you're running a weekly distance of 2 or 3 times a mara, at mara pace, you won't last more than a week...